Are We Seriously Arguing LeBron VS Jordan Again? Or Why Comparing Players From Different Eras is Impossible.

One of society’s worst trends, and Good Lord there’s a lot of them, is branding events as historical. Most things we witness in our lifetimes are far from historic. Sure, there are a handful of huge, world changing events that occurs in our time on Earth. We’re living through one now, for better or worse (definitely for worse). But people don’t refer to pandemics as historical. No, it you’ve watched any TV in the past 7 months, we call the COVID-19 crisis “Uncertain Times”. Then a calm, baritone voice actor tries to sell me a car with no money down, or a box of cereal. I’m glad people haven’t tried to catch in on a crisis.

We use “historical” “witnesses history” and “one for the ages” discussing sports all the time. Seriously? Why do we do this every year? Look, I’m one of the biggest Met fans in the world. Even I realize when Jacob deGrom strikes out 12 batters in 6 1/3^rd innings , it’s not historical. Neither is watching Michael Conforto crush a baseball into orbit 3-4 times a week. Is it beautiful? Absolutely. But historical? No, not at all. If anything, it’s super depressing, because one of the hacks in the bullpen will blow any lead. The only part of history the Mets fit into is that it repeats itself, over and over again. If you’ve seen one blown save, you’ve seen them all. Here’s a picture of it.

On October 11th, the NBA finals concluded. While I don’t think we saw anything historical, we did see something special. Two transcendent players won championship rings, and both hold a very special place in my heart. Of course, I’m talking about JR Smith and Dion Waiters.

These two titans of irrational confidence set the bar for glory seeking chuckers everywhere. I can’t remember a team having two players of their ilk on the same team. In many ways, the Lakers championship is more impressive because of this roster decision. Both Waiters and Smith combined to average 2 minutes per game throughout the postseason. That didn’t stop Smith from being the first player to grab the championship trophy – before the coach, owner, or any player who, you know, contributed could. His shirt was also off seconds after the game ended. Fully clothed or not, Smith is now a multiple time NBA champion. He also once dribbled out the clock of a tied Finals game. What an icon. I’ve have let him have the MVP trophy too.

Waiters was always a personal favorite of mine; not due to his basketball talent, but his complete delusion. Every time he stepped on the court, he truly believed he was the best player. I’m sure he was befuddled as to why the offense ran through Anthony Davis and LeBron instead of him. He considers himself part of the Lakers Big 3. In fact, his irrational confidence is at an all time high. Last week, he took shots at Miami, his former team. Waiters believed the Heat tried to “bury” him for suspended him for conduct detrimental to the team. He also proudly said “Look at me now”. That’s ironic phrasing. Waiters averaged 2 minutes a game and only appeared in 5 of a possible 21 postseason games. You’d often have to look toward the bench to find Waiters. I couldn’t love this more.

If you must include sports in history, this Dion Waiters performance belongs in the Hall of Fame. Nobody has even been so far separated from reality. Yet, he’s a champion. What a victory for Irrational Confidence players everywhere.

I suppose LeBron also won. Hooray?

Despite popular opinion, I’m not an unhinged loon. Lebron is one of the greatest players of all time. He played fantastic in the postseason, and deserved the finals MVP. Sure, he didn’t face the Clippers or Bucks, but that’s not on LeBron. Are we going to Asterisk the Raptors’ title because the entire Warriors roster tore ligaments? Or how about LeBron’s previous title due to a phantom suspension when Draymond failed to kick LeBron in the balls. Look you know how much I like to use asterisk. In fact, here’s one to talk about the Draymond suspension*¹.

Nevertheless, the games are, well, part of history (bleh). We can’t change it, even if we simulate another season in NB2K. If you want to blame anyone, blame the Bucks and the Clippers. It’s there fault we’ll hear the debate all winter long. Until basketball begins it’s next season, the same damn conversation will run sports media – Who’s better – LeBron or Jordan? Oh joy.

The Jordan and LeBron debate is like a teenager with acne – it appears at the worst times and never seems to end. Lebron is not my favorite player by any means, but I rooted for the Heat as best I could in part because I didn’t want to endure the argument again. Plus, Dion Waiters was set to get a ring from the Heat if they won, so Irrational Confidence fans were ensured a championship either way** ². The championship was the worst case scenario for neutral NBA fans. LeBron more or less coasted to a championship and the Jordan argument sprang up like that teenager’s acne the day of the Senior Prom. Unfortunately, there’s no Clearasil for outplayed sports debates.

It would be awesome if there was. We could remove Skip Bayless from mainstream media. That would be the brightest timeline.

I’ll confess; originally, I was going to write up my thoughts on the debate. I began outlining some stats when I realized I was no better than First Take. I looked in the mirror, and for a split second, I saw Bayless looking back at me, nodding in approval. Not my proudest moment.

But there’s some people out there who can’t get enough of the argument. They love hearing the same, tired talking points. There are people who love Jordan who can’t wait to recite his 6-0 finals record, the fact that each of his 6 Finals never went to a 7th game, and how much the rule changes helped LeBron. On the other side, LeBron fans salivate, citing James’ longevity, 10 Finals appearances, and that his story is ongoing.

There’s only so many arguments that we can make before we’re treading water. Believe me, we’ve been treading for a while. But you know what never seems to come up in arguments about LeBron vs Jordan? Kareem Abdul Jabbar’s career. Now, believe it or not, I do realize Kareem isn’t Jordan or LeBron. A few staunch LeBron defenders have never heard of Kareem Abdul Jabbar. But there’s a reason I’m mentioning him and it’s not just because he’s the only one of the three to appear on Full House.

When you’re arguing Lebron vs Jordan, you’re arguing about the greatest player of all time. If so, Kareem MUST enter the debate. He fits all the criteria, but never gets mentioned.

Statistically, Kareem is the best player of all time. The objective of basketball is to score more points than the other team** ³. Kareem is the all time leading scorer. LeBron is about 4,000 points behind him, and assuming health, will ultimately surpass him, but Kareem has held that record for a very long time. That’s impressive, but Kareem’s resume is lengthy as hell.

Jabbar is the most decorated player of all time, to the point that listing all his accolades in a paragraph insults his greatness, so I’m going to separate it into two. I’m a forward thinker. He is a 19 time All Star, which honestly might be his most gaudy achievement. For comparison, Michael Jordan only played 15 seasons, including an 18 game year 2 (broken foot) and a 17 game 1995 season returning from retirement.

Kareem made the All NBA Team 15 times, and the All Defensive Team 11 times, showing he wasn’t a One-Way player. He had two scoring titles, lead the league in blocks on four occasions, and has a rebounding crown as well. He was the rookie of the year, and won six MVPs. The MVPS is huge; its one more than Jordan and two over Lebron. He won six NBA titles, the number central to the Jordan and LeBron debate but never gets a mention. But there’s still so much more.

We know how much hype LeBron had before entering the NBA – already called King James and making the cover of Sports Illustrated in High School. “The Last Dance” highlighted how quickly Jordan took off; his potential only limited by North Carolina’s offensive system. But what about Kareem? Well, Kareem was so good and so feared, the NCAA banned dunking during Kareem’s collegiate career. No seriously. While the NCAA never admitted it, Kareem’s dominated, his opponents so much in his freshman year, the NCAA banned dunking for a decade. “The Jordan rules” were a slight toward Michael’s specialty treatment. The Lew Alcindor Rule***⁴ existed to limit Jabbar’s dominance. Spoilers – it did not.

At one point, Kareem held the fate of two professional basketball leagues in his hands. The ABA desperately needed Kareem to survive, and were willing to pay him $1,000,000 for him to declare for their league over the NBA. Somehow, the league botched this. Kareem wisely went to the NBA and the ABA folded soon after, allowing legends like Julius Erving to play in the NBA. Had Kareem chosen the ABA, things would have ended up different. Both leagues would have competed for talent, railroading the NBAs meteoric rise. Maybe both leagues fold, and basketball never takes off. Kareem’s decision had a massive impact on basketball.

Perhaps the only flaw in Kareem’s resume is only having two finals MVPs, which he still impressively won 14 years apart. The man played until he was 41, where he was still averaging double digits. Under any metric, he’s got a claim to be the greatest player ever. So why is it always Jordan VS LeBron? Where’s Kareem at people? The man had a signature shot nobody ever replicated for crying out loud. Was it the goggles? I bet it was the goggles.

The average LeBron vs Jordan debater, likely unaware he or she can breath through the nose, would say Kareem wouldn’t be great in this era. Centers are rarely the focal point on offense today, and Kareem’s lack of range would keep him from being dominant. He wouldn’t be able to play at today’s pace, and the 3 point focused game would make him an afterthought on some nights.

This is, of course, the dumbest argument of all time. at least flat earthers can point to a map and say “See? It’s flat?!”

Had Kareem been a rookie in 2010, he would have developed and played in today’s style of basketball. Kareem would have a 3 point shot, while retaining his defensive prowess and athleticism. He would be a terror on both sides of the ball, a perennial MVP candidate, and a multi time champion. The sky hook wouldn’t be as prominent as it was in the 70s and 80s, but if Tim Duncan could bank a bunch of jumpers, I’m sure it would play. The real question is who would try the first sky hook 3 pointer, and why would it be Dion Waiters?

The reason I hate the Jordan vs LeBron debate is simple: players from different eras cannot be compared. They are incompatible. You can have an opinion, but it’ll be incredibly bias. Despite all the pro Kareem sentiment you’ve read, I think Michael Jordan is the best player of all time. My evidence is I was born in 1987, therefore, he has to be. If I was born in 1967, I’d be in Kareem’s camp. And it was 2007, I’d probably be on Team LeBron. Then again, if I was 13, I doubt I’d have a website. In any scenario, I’d still be watching new episodes of Ducktales, like an adult.

I believe the best players of any era would be good, regardless of whatever era they played in. When people argue between two different eras, they argue as if both players were playing today. So sure, if you dropped prime Kareem into 2020, which no knowledge of today’s game, he wouldn’t be as dominate. He played a majority of his career without the 3 point line. Likewise, if you added 2020 LeBron to the 1960s Lakers, he’d average 63 points a game, and probably be jailed for being a wizard. This shouldn’t be how we view these hypotheticals. Players shouldn’t be arrested for time traveling. It wasn’t their idea.

If we must compare players from different eras, we have to assume they all have the same benefits as today’s athletes. When Kareem played, people mocked him for doing yoga and eating well. He played in an era where some rivals smoked at halftime. I can’t imagine why he was so dominant.

With today’s advancements in training and nutrition, I think Kareem would be even better than the version we know. If he managed a 20 year career in the 70s and 80s, he might play 30 seasons today. We consider LeBron an iron man, but Kareem would be right there with him.

I think that goes for all the legends of the past – Bill Russell, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, ect. If you gave them today’s training and knowledge, they’d all remain legendary. I actually think 1960s Wilt Chamberlain would excel in today’s game. Chamberlain’s insane strength and athleticism fits modern basketball like a glove. He’d be like an enhanced version of Prime Dwight Howard**** ⁵.

Believe it or not, the different era rule applies to Jordan and LeBron as well. The game is completely different from the 90s to today. Back in the 90s, defensive rules were different. Toward the end of Jordan’s career, especially during the second 3 peat, games were a lot slower. Did you see some of the scores in the playoff games during “The Last Dance”? Offensively, it wasn’t pretty. Defenders could be more physical, and while it wasn’t the blood bath some 90s fans make it seem, defense ruled. 90s Basketball played at a snail’s pace. By the end of the decade, breaking 100 points was an accomplishment. Without the brilliance of players like Jordan, some game were borderline unwatchable. Offense consistence of a ton of mid range shots, isolation basketball and empty possessions. It was a dream era for Dion Waiters.

Congrats to Waiters by the way. He’s the breakout star of this article, even more than Jabbar.

In LeBron’s era, rule changes favored offense. The physical defensive play gave way to more open offensive. The league permitted zone defenses while removing hand checking. Driving lanes opened for every halfway decent perimeter player and ball handler. Soon, teams realized that 3 points were worth more than 2, and the 3 pointer became the focal point***** ⁶ . The corner 3 became basketball’s money shot, and mid range jumpers became obsolete. Defensive philosophies became much more advanced, and isolation gave way to the drive and kick.

In the 90s, point guards were always the facilitators. Most teams played around the post, and centers were the stars on most franchises. Many possessions ended with a mid range, contested shot. Even the Bulls’ triangle offense posted up Jordan a lot, and the Bulls were the first team to win without a star center. They relied on Jordan’s offense, and suffocating defense.

Today, basketball revolves around their perimeter, and all positions serve as facilitators. Players who can’t credibly shoot 3 pointers struggle to stay on the court, unless they are incredibly skilled otherwise. Many games are determined by who hits more three pointers.

These changes took place in 20 years. Imagine how different Kareem’s era was?

Had Jordan played today, he would have developed a 3 point shot pretty quickly. In the 80s, nobody shot 3s, so he never worked on it. The lack of hand checking would have provided more driving lanes, and probably more Jordan posters. He wouldn’t have averaged 50, like some people think, but he’d have better numbers with the increased pace. Nobody’s opinion of Jordan would change.

Had LeBron played in the 90s, he’d have been in the post more, brutalizing smaller players. He’d still have played point forward, and the slower pace may have actual helped LeBron look even more dominant at times. Consider that Karl Malone was a MVP winner in the 90s. LeBron is the same size as Malone, but he can play Point Guard (And also isn’t an unbelievable asshole like Malone). I don’t think hand checking would have helped things. The only difference is instead of Draymond, Charles Oakley would have definitely tried to kick Lebron in the balls. And by kick in the balls, I mean clothesline James on a drive and then be confused that a foul was called.

We didn’t even talk about Magic Johnson, who would play all 5 positions today, or Larry Bird, who could shoot 45% from 3 in any given season with modern spacing. But any of these players – Jabbar, Jordan, Lebron, Bird, Magic, et all, is all speculation. We really don’t know. We can only compare them to who they actually played against. That’s why Bird vs Magic is fun. They went head to head on the highest stage multiple times. And you know what else? There’s still no consensus on who was better between the two of them. So how the hell are we going to compare Jordan and LeBron? I also love how we frame those games as Bird vs Magic when Kareem, among a host of other greats, were there. Man, Kareem really doesn’t get respect.

If you must compare eras, there’s two things you can point to. The first, obviously, is dominance. If you dominated in a credible era, I’m sure you’d dominant in any. I wanted to rule out George Miken with this. Job well done Bloggin Hood.

The second, is how revered the player is, especially with his peers. I have only seen clips of Bill Russell play, but his teammates and opponents gush over his talent. Kareem, Magic and Bird are always talked about as walking legends. We’ve seen “The Last Dance”; some of those interviewed, Hall of Famers in their own right, considered Jordan infallible. To question any of these player’s greatness is pointless. Don’t be a dumbass people.

LeBron doesn’t always get the same respect. While legends compliment him, his peers aren’t always so quick to sing praises. I believe it’s because LeBron is still active. You can’t bend the knee when you’re actively competing against the guy. But when he’s retired, legends and peers alike will give Lebron his deserved praise.

Except for Draymond. Draymond will call Lebron a bitch and say Curry is better.

So please, do yourself a favor. The next time somebody brings up LeBron versus Jordan, don’t enter the debate. We’ll all be better for it.

1. *If Draymond wasn’t suspended in 2016, the Warriors win the series in 5 games. Durant never joins Golden State, and the NBA is infinitely more interesting in 2017 and 2018. We did get to see the peek of offensive basketball for 2.5 years as a result, but also the removal of competition from the league. Remember, it took season ending injuries to Durant and Klay Thompson to really hinder the Warriors, and the Raptors didn’t exact blow them out. The moral of the story is, if you try to kick your opponents in the balls, at least connect and earn the suspension.
2. Waiters began the year on Miami’s roster. I’m sure they regret dumping him after seeing those electric 10 postseason minutes.
3. **Despite the recent trend of “bitch to the ref to get every call”, the objective to win hasn’t changed.
4. I hope everyone knows this, but Kareem Abdul Jabbar changed his name from Lew Alcindor. Nevertheless, Kareem is the greatest athlete named Lew AND Kareem. Did Jordan or LeBron manage to be the greatest athlete for two different names? I think not.
5. The only player who wouldn’t improve in this scenario is George Mikan. Have you seen clips of his “dominance”. It would be like Bloggin Hood playing against 2^nd graders. This argument only works when you’ve extremely skilled, not taller than others.
6. *****Why did this take over 20 years? Did the NBA only hire statisticians and analytical minds after 2008? People were regularly taking 18-20 footers in the 90s and making them. A single step backwards was worth a free point. I’m not sure if the innovative minds deserve more credit, or the 80s-early 2000s coaches and players deserve less.